Vicipéid:Baibéal

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Thug mé an chéad taithneamh don Ghaeilge nuair a bhí mé ceithre bliana déag d'aois, ach ní dhearna mé a dhath ar bith faoi sin sula raibh mé fiche éigin bliain d'aois. Sa bhliain 1995 a thosaigh mé ag úsáid na Gaeilge go laethúil, ar an Idirlíon. Agus chuala an saol mór iomrá ar ar tharla dá bharr sin, is dócha.

Panugaeilgewiki A fhad is a bheidh CMALANT timpeall, ní bheidh mé ag cur leis an Vicipéid. Ar an leathanach Panugaeilgewiki, áfach, beidh tuilleadh ábhair as Gaeilge, aistriúcháin ón mBéarla, agus cuirfear leis an Vicipéid Gaeilge iad a thúisce is a éireoidh seisean as.

Leid an Lae ó Phanu/Today's Tip from Panu

Féilire Ghreagóra etc.

Greagóir and Iúil are proper names and as such inherently definite, while Gregorian and Julian in English are adjectives. Thus, "Féilire Ghreagóra" and "Féilire Iúil" cannot have a definite article - they are already definite enough. Because it is followed by a definite noun, "Féilire" cannot in these phrases take an article, and it will be declined as if it were a proper noun, thus showing genitive only by lenition. Thus: "de réir Fhéilire Ghreagóra", "de réir Fhéilire Iúil". (In a similar way, "de réir bharúil an tsaineolaí", never *"de réir na barúla an tsaineolaí" - if a noun is followed by a definite noun in genitive case, it doesn't take an article, and it can't be declined, except in genitive by leniting the first consonant, if it can be lenited.)

And of course, "Uachtarán Stáit Aontaithe Mheiriceá", but "Uachtarán na Stát Aontaithe". In the first one, "Stáit Aontaithe" is followed by Meiriceá in the genitive, and as a proper noun Meiriceá is inherently genitive. Thus, it freezes "Stáit" into nominative plural, even if Stáit would be genitive in function, as here.

"Leis an údar"

MASCULINE NOUNS beginning with a vowel take an extra t- after the definite article in nominative singular: údar -> an t-údar.

BUT this t- is OMITTED when the article is preceded by a simple preposition:

an t-údar, but leis an údar, ag an údar, chuig an údar, ón údar, as an údar, ar an údar.

Relief to a beleaguered place

Relief is usually faoiseamh, yes - in the everyday sense. However, relieving a beleaguered place needs the word fortacht. Here are three possible ways to use it:

Gheall an Rí Bullaí go rachadh sé chun fortachta do mhuintir Phrotastúnach Dhoire a bhí faoi léigear ag Séamus.
Chonaic muintir Phrotastúnach Dhoire an Rí Bullaí ag teacht chun fortachta dóibh agus iad faoi léigear ag Séamus.
Ceiliúrann Printísigh Dhoire an Rí Bullaí, a thug fortacht dá sinsir agus iad faoi léigear ag Séamus.

Má, mura, sula, nuair

In English, we usually have present tense in a subordinate clause, when we have a future tense in the main clause: "when he comes home, I'll be glad", "if you understand this, you will pass the exam", "you will not be allowed in, unless you buy a ticket", "I will buy a ticket before I go in". In Irish, the story is a little more complicated:

If the subordinate clause is introduced with the conjunction nuair, it has a future tense form: nuair a thiocfaidh sé abhaile, beidh lúcháir orm. (In those dialects which add -s to the present and future forms of the verb in a direct relative clause, it is also usually added in a nuair clause: nuair a thiocfas sé abhaile... However, this -s is not a part of the Caighdeán, so we will not use it on the Vicipéid.)

If it is a má clause, it functions as in English: má thuigeann tú an méid seo, gheobhaidh tú pas sa scrúdú.

If it is a sula/sara ("before") or a mura/muna/mana ("unless") clause, the story is more complicated. Present tense seems to be the caighdeán recommendation, thus mura gceannaíonn tú ticéad, ní bheidh cead isteach agat, and some writers follow it. However, the reality is, that with these two conjunctions, traditional Gaeltacht speech (and Ó Dónaill's Irish-English dictionary, which is a treasure trove of great Gaeltacht Irish) has preferred either future tense: mura gceannóidh tú ticéad, ní bheidh cead isteach agat, ceannóidh mé ticéad sula rachaidh mé isteach or present subjunctive: mura gceannaí tú ticéad, ní bheidh cead isteach agat, ceannóidh mé ticéad sula dté mé isteach. Present subjunctive seems not to be taught at schools these days, but it is still quite a living form, and often encountered in literature.

If you read Connemara literature, you will see that sula has there the form sul má, and that it is followed by the -s form of the future tense: ceannóidh mé ticéad sul má rachfas mé isteach. This is dialect however and should not be imitated by us.

Questions are welcome, as usual.

Article Usage

No double definiteness in Irish

For English-speakers, it is entirely counterintuitive that Irish does not allow definite article before a noun which is followed by a definite noun in genitive. The idea is, that one definite article makes the whole phrase definite. Thus, we have:

Irish: Uachtarán na hÉireann = English: the president of Ireland

I: fear an phoist = E: the man of the post

I: Stáit Aontaithe Mheiriceá = E: the United States of America (Mheiriceá is the genitive form of Meiriceá, which as a proper noun is inherently definite, although it does not take an article)

An exception to this rule is with the use of a demonstrative:

Irish: "an tUachtarán seo na hÉireann" = English: 'this' President of Ireland

I: an fear sin an phoist = E: 'that' man of the post

Hosts of people, lots of things: use the article

Another important point is, that before plural nouns expressing great quantities, you are supposed to have the article:

tháinig na mílte duine ansin = thousands of people came there

Vocabulary

Longfort is not "port"

For your information: longphort or longfort (stupidly enough, the second one is the official orthography) does not mean "port", but rather a military stronghold. The words for "port" are cuan, calafort, caladh, and port.

Don't use "aon" for "one (of them)"

Please don't use "aon" for "one (of them)", i.e. don't write "aon acu". It is never or almost never used by native writers (the only text where I have seen it was folklore written down from a terminal speaker of a dying dialect, which IMHO marks it as Anglicism). Instead, use:

duine acu for "one of them" if "they" are people

bean acu for "one of them" if "they" are exclusively women or girls

fear acu for "one of them" if it needs to be especially stressed that the one is a man

ceann acu for "one of them" if "they" are things or animals.

So:

one of the girls = "bean de na cailíní", one of them = "bean acu"

one of the boys = "duine de na buachaillí", one of them = "duine acu"

one of the screwdrivers = "ceann de na scriúirí", one of them = "ceann acu"

caitheann a úsáidtear mar shampla; duine desna buachaillí? (má úsáidtear ar chóir ar bith.....?)--Spaircí 11:59, 26 Samhain 2006 (UTC)

Duine de na buachaillí, or even fear de na buachaillí. "Desna" is Munster dialect.Panu Petteri Höglund 15:26, 26 Samhain 2006 (UTC)

Years: "sa bhliain 2006", not "i 2006"

It is an Anglicism to write, for example, "i 2006" for "in 2006". This bad habit is widespread even among fluent speakers, but this does not make it any better, because "sa bhliain 2006" is the better usage (see Ó Dónaill's dictionary, for example). Please take the trouble of writing "sa bhliain" instead of "i".

"Sa bhliain 2006" (= "sa bhliain dhá mhíle sé") is in itself somewhat funny, because the main rule would actually postulate "i mbliain a 2006" (= "i mbliain dhá mhíle a sé"). However, "sa bhliain 2006" seems to be the most acceptable usage. As I said, the usage "i 2006" is widespread even among fluent Gaeilgeoirs, but anyone who has learnt his Irish by reading Gaeltacht authors knows that WE can do better.

Panu Petteri Höglund 12:53, 2 Lúnasa 2006 (UTC)

Cad faoi "i mbliain 2006"? Palmiro 02:22, 12 Eanáir 2007 (UTC)

Sin ceist mhaith, dháiríre. De réir na gnáthloighice, ba chóir úsáid a bhaint as an leagan sin - "uimhir a dó", "ceacht a trí" - so, cén fáth nach ndéarfá "bliain dhá mhíle a sé"? Is minic a chuir mé an cheist sin orm féin, ach is é an leagan a bhíonn ag na scríbhneoirí uile ar cainteoirí dúchasacha iad ná "sa bhliain" agus uimhir na bliana ag teacht sna sálaí. Ní féidir liom aon mhíniú eile a thabhairt ar an eisceacht seo ach úsáid na gcainteoirí dúchais, ach is é an bharúil atá agamsa ná gurb é sin an míniú is fearr atá ann. Is é sin an úsáid a mholtar i bhfoclóir Uí Dhónaill, freisin. Panu Petteri Höglund 15:30, 12 Eanáir 2007 (UTC)

==

Ná scríobh ar mo leathanach úsáideora, le do thoil. Ní maith liom é, an maith leatsa é?

Cuir Mise An Locht Ar Na Tuistí 09:27, 13 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

Dar Dia, d'éirigh leat abairt iomlán a scríobh as Gaeilge gan oiread is aon bhotún amháin! Tá tú ag déanamh dul chun cinn, - an rud is annamh is iontach. Panu Petteri Höglund 12:22, 13 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

With such excessively pedantic criticisms as yours, it is little wonder that so many people find the Irish language unappealing. It is disappointing to see that you are so ready to be condescending about grammatical errors in Irish through the English language and yet you are blissfully unaware of the crude mistakes you are making in my first language.

Bhuel, má tá mé ag déanamh "botúin ghránna", fáiltím roimh aon cheartúchán. Níl mé róchinnte go bhfuil tú ábalta mórán den earra sin a phointeáil amach dom. Más í an Ghaeilge an chéad teanga atá agat, agus má aithníonn tú botúin ar a raibh scríofa agam, cuir in iúl dom cá ndearna mé botún, agus cén cineál botún. Is é an rud a thaibhsítear dom ná nach mbeidh tú ábalta aon cheann a aithint (nó a aithne, más fearr leat Gaeilge Uladh, nó a aithneachtáil, má d'fhoghlaim tú do chuid Gaeilge i gConamara). Bíonn an chaint saor.Panu Petteri Höglund 13:43, 11 Meán Fómhair 2007 (UTC)

I politely request that you criticise in a constructive manner. Irish is a minority language in serious decline and needs all the support it can get. Your comments are counterproductive.

An chuid is mó den am, ní ag déanamh tráchtaireacht ar aon chineál botún atáim, ach ag cur Gaeilge ar altanna Béarla nó ag scríobh altanna nua as Gaeilge. Maidir leis an gconstructive criticism, is nath cainte é is minicí a fheictear ag daoine nach bhfuil in ann cur suas le criticism de chineál ar bith - cuma cé acu constructive nó destructive atá sé. Maidir leis an support, níl mé cinnte an bhfuil mórán fiúntais ag baint leis an tacaíocht a thagann ó dhaoine nach bhfuil sásta a ndicheall a dhéanamh le feabhas a chur ar a gcuid Gaeilge. Is léir nach gcaithfidh gach duine a bheith ina shár-shaineolaí oilte nuair a chromfaidh sé ar obair na Vicipéide an chéad uair. Scéal eile, áfach, gur chóir dó tiomantas ionraic a ghlacadh air féin feabhas a chur ar a chuid Gaeilge, le go mbeidh sé ar aon leibhéal liom féin an lá is faide anonn. Panu Petteri Höglund 13:43, 11 Meán Fómhair 2007 (UTC)