Plé:Domhnach na Fola (1972)

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Úsáidtear an tearma Domhnach na Fola le chuir síos ar eachtra a tharla i nDoire, Tuaisceart na hÉireann, 30 Eanair, 1972.

"Le chuir síos". This is the kind of construction that wants a verbal noun. "Chuir síos" is not a verbal noun. "Chuir" is the past tense form of "cuir/cur", not the verbal noun. Besides, "cur síos (ar rud)" is a description, not a name or a designation. Instead of this megillah, why can't you guys just say that this eachtra is called so?

Fuair 26 daoine bás fad is a bhí siad ar móirshiúil i dTaobh an Portach, do Cearta Sibhialta Tuaisceart na hÉireann.

"Fad is a bhí siad" sounds like they would have been dying all the time they were on the march. And "ar móirshiúil" does not mean anything: to start with, the word is "mórshiúl", "móirshiúil" has two extra i's. "Taobh an Portach" is obviously wrong, because in Irish, we have this thing called genitive - if this means Bogside, then it should be Taobh an Phortaigh. After "do", a lenition is mandatory. Besides, "Tuaisceart (na h)Éireann" is "Thuaisceart (na h)Éireann" in genitive case. And the whole thing beginning with "do..." is far too vague.

Bhí sé an Cathlán den Reisimint paraisiútáil Sasanach faoi an Lefteanant-Chornal, Derek Wilford agus an Captaen Mike Jackson a bhí dualgasach san obráid seo.

The sentence begins with one of the definite and absolute no-nos of Irish syntax, i.e. coupling of noun (Cathlán) with a form of the tá-verb (bhí). "Paraisiútáil" is a non-word; if it does exist, it must be a verb. And if the regiment is not precisely mentioned, then call them just paras - "paratrúipéirí" as any standard dictionary will tell you. "Faoi an" is normally written "faoin", and a colonel is coirnéal. And of course, leifteanant is written with an ei. Obráid is what a surgeon does - a military operation is oibríocht.

Fuair trí duine dhéag bás (séisiúr dóibh faoi hocht mbliana déag d'aois), ar an bpointe, agus duine eile 4½ mí níos déanaí de bhárr a bheith gortaithe ar an lá seo.

Trí dhuine, not trí duine; and no dhéag, but déag - it is not directly preceded by anything leniting. Besides, triúr déag would be better Irish. Séisiúr is a non-word, what is meant is probably seisear. Dóibh means "to them"; what was meant was probably díobh, although acu is usually used instead in this sort of context. Faoi does not add a h- to vowels - it adds it to consonant (lenites), and these two mechanisms don't usually go together. De bhárr should be written without fada, and usually refers to positive consequences; for negative consequences use de dheasca or de thoradh (the latter is neutral). Note that níos déanaí is preferably ní ba déanaí when we are speaking about past.

Bhí beirt agóidigh gortaithe nuair a thiomáin gluaisteain na hairm tharthu.

Beirt is followed by plural genitive, thus beirt agóideach, although I would prefer beirt agóideoirí. If you say "bhí siad gortaithe nuair...", it means that they had already been injured when the army cars hit them. Really, I would just say that they hit them: gortaíodh beirt agóideoirí nuair a bhuail gluaisteáin an airm iad. "Na hairm" is plural nominative, not singular genitive. And if they were not hit by all the cars, say "nuair a bhuail gluaisteáin de chuid an airm iad". If it was just one car, then "gluaisteán de chuid an airm".

Deireann chuid mhaith de na fínneithe (iriseoirí ina measc) nach raibh airm ar bith ag na daoine nuair a scoileadh leo. Gortaíodh cúigear le piléir sa dhroim.

Deireann is a little substandard although it is perfectly good Irish. However, in the standard language, we use deir. Chuid mhaith should be cuid mhaith, because there is nothing before the cuid to account for lenition. Finné has a short i, at least in writing, thus finnéithe. Scoileadh should be scaoileadh. D does not lenite after sa, thus sa droim. (Sa is historically ins an, so remember the "dentals" rule: -n does not lenite d-!)


Tá dhá fiosrúcháin déanta ag rialtas na Breataine:

Dhá, as other simple numbers, is followed by singular, and lenites: Tá dhá fhiosrúchán déanta ag...

  • Fiosrúcháin Widgery, a rinneadh díreach i ndiadh an eachtra, dúirt sé go raibh na saighdúirí neamhchiontach, níor thug móran daoine aird nó meas ar an fiosrúcháin seo.

Fiosrúchán, just one. And "i ndiaidh na heachtra", although this is not a very bad error - dialects disagree about the gender of eachtra, and I find it myself a little difficult to remember which one is prescribed in the standard. A full stop before a new sentence: ..., dúirt sé go raibh na saighdiúirí neamhchiontach. Níor thug...

And of course, "ar an bhfiosrúchán" - again, it is no plural. "Ar an fhiosrúchán", the Ulster variant, is permissible in the standard, but I prefer the other standard form as long as there is no decision about introducing Ulster dialect in pages about Ulster. (I am able to translate them into the dialect, if need arises, but I prefer not to do it without a good reason.)

  • Fiosrúcháin Saville; bhunaíodh é sa bhliain 1998 chun féachaint ar na eachtraí arís, níl sé chríochnaithe fós.

Again, fiosrúchán, singular form. If bhunaíodh is meant to be the past autonomous form of bunaigh, then it should be bunaíodh: although past personal forms begin with bh-, the past autonomous begins with b-. However, an enquiry is hardly established or founded; the correct way to say it would rather be "tosaíodh é", "cuireadh tús leis", "cuireadh bun leis". "Ar na eachtraí" should be "ar na heachtraí" - vowels take a h- after the nominative plural of definite article.

Thosaigh feachtas an t-IRA Sealadach dhá bhlian roimhe seo, ach de bhárr eacthraí an lá seo, d'fhás stádas agus méid an eagraíocht.

An t- before a masculine nominative that begins with vowel, but here is a genitive: thosaigh feachtas an IRA Shealadaigh would be formally correct. It does feel too awkward though: I would say simply "feachtas na Sealadach", the campaign of the Provisionals. Again de bhárr is written wrong and misused. And lá should have genitive form: eachtraí an lae seo. And of course eagraíocht should be put in genitive: na heagraíochta.

Tá Domhnach na Fola cheann de na eachtraí ba thabhachtaí i measc naTrioblóidí sa Tuaisceart, toisc an uair seo bhí an airm bainteach agus ní amhain saighdiúirí paramíleataigh, agus go bhfuair muintir na tíre amach faoin eachtra go heasca trí na mean cumarsáide.

Tá is combined with a noun: a definite no-no. It becomes much better if you put an ar in between: tá D na F ar ceann de na heachtraí is tábhachtaí (historical events are seen as part of historical narrative told today, thus is instead of ba here). I measc means "amongst" in an unordered mess, not in an chain of ordered events. And it should take a genitive: i measc na dTrioblóidí. However, I would prefer "i stair na dTrioblóidí", in the history of the Troubles. "Toisc" takes always a go/nach/gur/nár clause or a verbal noun construction: "toisc go raibh an t-arm...an uair seo" or "toisc an t-arm a bheith...an uair seo". Another way to make it grammatical is to substitute "arae", "nó" or "óir": "óir, an uair seo, bhí an t-arm"... Note that "an airm" is the genitive form of "an t-arm", here we need a nominative. I am not very happy with "bainteach" here, but it is hardly wrong. "Ní hamháin" is standard, although I don't think "ní amháin" is particularly wrong. "Paraimíleataigh" is a noun plural but if we use it as an attributive adjective after saighdiúirí, it must be saighdiúirí paraimíleatacha. "Agus go bhfuair" does not look particularly integrated with the rest of the sentence, and "éasca" has a long é. And trí becomes tríd before the article: tríd na meáin chumarsáide. It is meán, plural meáin, and after the slender -n in the end of the meáin, cumarsáide is lenited: na meáin chumarsáide.

Again, again, again: read those books for chrissake. I do try to do my best, but if you want to contribute, do try to do something about your Irish. Since the project was initiated, you have had ample time for trying to improve it. It is no magic trick really, just a two-year stint of regular training. Panu Petteri Höglund 22:57, 6 Meán Fómhair 2007 (UTC)