Plé:Bó na nGarbhchríoch

Ón Vicipéid, an chiclipéid shaor.
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Nach mbeadh Bó Ghaelach níos oiriúnaí, sa chás seo? Féach Bò Ghàidhealach ar Vicipéid gd. Níl bhíonn/raibh an téarma 'Garbhchríoch' in úsáid ag Gaeil na hAlban, úsáidtear/úsáideadh A' Ghàidhealtachd. Bíonn, ar ndóigh, 'Hielans nó Highlands' ag lucht an Bhéarla, ach nach bheadh duine ag súil leis go leantar 'nós na nGael' sa leagan Gaeilge seo!Éóg1916 09:22, 28 Mí na Samhna 2009 (UTC)

I don't object to it, of course, but what I don't understand is the overall purpose of changing Bó na nGarbhchríoch to Bó Ghaelach. I can see that it would make it similar to the Scots Gaelic form Bò Ghàidhealach but then that would suggest that there should be a standard Gaelic that both 'languages' (if you want to think of them as being so different) should adhere to. Úsáideoir:Chaco 28 Mí na Samhna 2009

Léireoidh an Dr. Ciarán Ó Duibhín tuiscint s'agamsa faoin ábhar seo! (Féach:http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/cruinneas/gaedhilg.htm) "Cibé rud a chreideann an mhuinntir a labhrann ar "Gaeilge agus Gàidhlig", agus a bíos in amannaí ag deánamh "aistriúcháin" eadarthu, níor bh'é meon na nGael ariamh gur teangthacha difriúla iad an Ghaedhilg in Éirinn agus in Albain. Teangaidh amháin a d'ainmnigheadh siad-san. "Gaoluinn" a bheireadh an Muimhneach uirthi, agus labhaireadh sé ar "Ghaoluinn na hAlban". "Gàidhlig" a bheireadh an t-Albanach uirthi agus labhaireadh sé ar "Ghàidhlig Éireannach"". Éóg1916 17:19, 28 Mí na Samhna 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I have to say I agree with that! But that also creates something of a dilemma - if there is only one Gaelic language then there should only be one Gaelic Vicipéid. However, there are three (Gaeilge, Gàidhlig and Gaelg) and this means there are three standardised versions of the same language. Maybe we should just have one standard version, like Italian and German have, and perhaps just use the others as a resource to enrich the standard's lexis (such as the 'Bò Ghàidhealach' example above).If we choose to continue to assert that these dialects are separate languages worthy of equal attention, then somebody should create Gaedhilic, Gaoluinn and Gaedhlag Vicipéids. These dialects have as much claim to being separate languages as Gàidhlig and Gaelg have. Úsáideoir:Chaco 28 Mí na Samhna 2009

"Ní thiocfadh an cás a chur ní b'fhearr ná chuir Colm Ó Baoill é, agus é ag scríobhadh in "Éigse" (2000), lch 132: It is because we discuss this subject in English that the terms "Irish", "Scottish" and "Manx" obtrude themselves so forcefully, convincing us that we are speaking of three different Gaelic languages".Éóg1916 11:18, 29 Mí na Samhna 2009 (UTC)
Cre'n fa dy vel shiu gra nagh vel ayns ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh agh chengey hingyl? Ta mee hene credjal nagh vel kiart ayn eh shen gra gyn feanish chengoaylleeagh ny gyn imraaghyn ny farraneyn-fys. Ta cair-screeu y Ghaelg feer anchasley rish cair-screeu y Ghaelg Albinagh, ny y Yernish. My vel shin gra dy beagh eh ny share nagh vel ayn agh un chengey Ghaelgagh lesh ram abbyrtyn, cre'n cair-screeu ta ny share dhooin. Ta ny Manninee jannoo ymmyd jeh'n cair-screeu Manninagh er feie kiare keeadyn dy vleeantyn. As ta shin feer moyrnagh lesh. T'eh soiaghey jeh fockley magh y Ghaelg ny share dhooin na cair-screeu Gaelgagh y Yernish. Myr sampleyr, ta'n sheean /z/ ain, sheean nagh vel ayn 'sy Yernish ny 'sy Ghaelg Albinagh, as sheean ta screeuit sheese myr <ss>. Ta strughtoor grammeydagh anchasley ayns nyn jengey oc, strughtoor nagh vel ry-akin ayns ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh elley. Cha nel caas feer-ghienneydagh ain - t'eh shen, cha nel dooinney jargal jeeaghin er fockle 'sy chaase gienneydagh as, eaisht, cur toiggalys ayn dy vel y fockle shen ny fockle bwoirrinagh ny ny fockle firrynagh. Ta shin gra yn y firrynagh ayns ynnyd dy vel ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh elley cur na bwoirrinagh 'syn ynnyd cheddin. Ta strughtoor earrooagh anchasley ain myrgeddin. 'Sy Yernish ta shin jannoo ymmyd jeh earrooyn persoonagh. 'Sy Ghaelg cha nel agh tree earrooyn persoonagh ayn - dooinney, jees (ghooiney), troor. Jei shen ta shin loayrt kiare deiney, queig deiney a.r.e. Myrane lesh shen, ta strughtoor grammeydagh ny h-earrooyn feer anchasley rish y Yernish - 'Sy Yernish ta shin jannoo ymmyd jeh boggaghys marish y lhieggan unnidagh veih ny h-earrooyn daa dys shey, as jeh stronnaghey veih shiaght dys nuy. 'Sy Ghaelg ta shin jannoo ymmyd jeh boggaghys marish y lhieggan unnidagh da nane as daa. Da ny h-earrooyn elley cha nel shin jannoo ymmyd agh jeh'n lhieggan yl-rey - gyn stronnaghey, gyn boggaghys. Ayns Gaelg Albinagh as Yernish, ta boggaghys ny stronnaghys ry-chlashtyn tra ta shin gymmydey roie-ocklyn. Cha nel eh shen ry-chlashtyn 'sy Ghaelg agh un traa - nar ta olt jeeragh ayn (te.s. er boayrd, agh er y voayrd). Ta red elley ry-akin ayns Gaelg nagh vel ayn ayns ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh elley - ta ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh elley jannoo ymmyd jeh far-enmyn shellooagh da'n chied, da'n nah as da'n treeoo phersoon 'syn yl-rey - te.s. ár, bhur, a 'sy Yernish. Cha nel y red cheddin ayn 'sy Ghaelg. Ta shen jannoo ymmyd jeh nyn er ny lomarcan da'n chied, da'n nah, as da'n treeoo phersoon, as dys anchaslaghey y yannoo eddyr keeallyn, y roie-ockle ec ny yei. M.s. ár dteanga 'sy Yernish, nyn jengey ain 'sy Ghaelg, bhur dteanga 'sy Yernish, nyn jengey eu 'sy Ghaelg a.r.e. Myrane lesh ny h-anchaslyssyn grammeydagh t'ayn, ta anchaslyssyn breearagh ayn chammah. Ayns Yernish ta ny h-emshiryn shoh ry-gheddyn: emshir aaragh, emshir chaie, emshir ry-heet, emshir chianglagh, emshir aaragh chliaghtagh, yn emshir chaie chliaghtagh, yn emshir fondagh. 'Sy Ghaelg, cha nel agh yn emshir aaragh, yn emshir chaie, yn emshir ry-heet as yn emshir chianglagh. Agh, ansherbee, cha nel ny h-emshiryn caie as ry-heet ny feer-emshiryn er y fa dy vel ad jeant seose son y chooid smoo jeh'n lhieggan caie ny ry-heet jeh'n vreear jean. T'eh shen, son dy chroo yn abbyrt ta mee drappal y billey 'syn emshir chaie, shegin shooin eh shen y gra myr ren mee drappal y billey as 'syn emshir ry-heet - nee'm drappal y billey. Myrane lesh shen, ta focklyn er lheh ain nagh vel ayn ayns ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh elley - lheid as "boodeeys", "vondeish", "vaal", "quaiyl", "wed", "whaig" a.r.e. focklyn quaagh t'ayndaue as ad cheet magh ass y Loghlynish, y Rankish, as y Vaarle henndeeagh. Ta shiu gra dy vel ny Yernee, ny h-Albinee as ny Manninee cur Gaelg ny fockle keddin er y chengey, as nagh vel ayn agh un chengey as eh bunnit er y fockle shen as ny cosoylaghtyn eddyr oc. Agh, jeeagh er ny chengaghyn Slavagh Sloveanish, Slovackish as Slavonish agglishagh - t'ad cur slovenščina, slovenčina as Словѣ́ньскъ (slovjensk) er nyn jengaghyn oc, as ny focklyn shen jannoo cur sheese er un fockle - Slavish, ny Slavonish. Ta ram cosoylaghtyn as focklyn eddyr oc. Vel shiu gra nagh vel ayns ny tree chengaghyn shen agh un chengey? Cre mychione Norlynnish, Soolynnish as y Danvargish? Dy jarroo, vel Gaelg oc dys cosoylaghey y yannoo? Vel Gaelg ec Ó Duibhín? Er lhiam dy vel shiu dy lieragh jannoo arganeyssyn gyn feanishyn. Cha nel feanishyn chengoaylleeagh eu ny ec Ó Duibhín. Cha nel ayn agh tuarymyn eu, as lesh shen cha nel kied eu duillagyn dy aa-enmyssey gyn cooish, cha nel kied eu gra nagh vel 'sy Ghaelg agh abbyrt jeh'n Ghaedhilg myr dooyrt Ó Duibhín gyn feanish faagail magh ennym y chengey.
Er gerrid, ta cair-screeu anchasley ain, fockley magh anchasley ain, sheeanchoryssaghtys anchasley ain, grammeydys anchasley ain, strughtoor breearagh anchasley ain, shennaghys er lheh ain, cultoor er lheh ain a.r.e. Ta'n Ghaelg ny s'odjey veih ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh elley na ta'n Norlynnish veih'n Danvargish - ny ayns my huarym hene, chengey er lheh t'ayns y Ghaelg, anchasley rish y Yernish as y Ghaelg Albinagh. Ta mee cur failt rish arganeys noi'n eie shen, my vel fys, farraneyn-fys, ny imraaghyn chengoaylleeagh eu, ynrican. --MacTire02 13:59, 29 Mí na Samhna 2009 (UTC)
"if Manx, like Scottish Gaelic, had had the good fortune to preserve, in a suitably modified and modernized form, the traditional system of Gaelic orthography, the close kinship between [Manx and Scottish] would be obvious" (O'Rahilly 78)Éóg1916 16:50, 29 Mí na Samhna 2009 (UTC)
Relevance? No-one here has questioned the close kinship between Manx and Scots Gaelic. What is in question is the linguistic classification of the Gaelic languages - 3 languages vs. 1 language with a variety of dialects. On another point related to the above quotation - it is impossible to preserve that which did not exist previously. Nobody can say that Manx was misfortunate in losing its Gaelic orthography when there is no evidence that there ever was one. The first attested writings in Manx originate in the 16th century - those of Bishop Phillips. O'Rahilly could do with proving a Gaelic orthography existed before suggesting that it had been lost. Finally, the quotation above does not address any of the points I addressed previously. --MacTire02 08:47, 1 Mí na Nollag 2009 (UTC)
If Manx, like Scottish Gaelic, had had the good fortune to preserve, in a suitably modified and modernized form, the traditional system of Gaelic orthography, the close kinship between [Manx and Scottish] would be obvious agus bheadh sé níos éasca dúinn í a léamh/thuiscint! "It is because we discuss this subject in English that the terms "Irish", "Scottish" and "Manx" obtrude themselves so forcefully, convincing us that we are speaking of three different Gaelic languages"(TAG: Colm Ó Baoill Éigse" (2000), lch 132)
Ábharthacht? "The first attested writings in Manx originate in the 16th century"..
tá súil agam nach bhfuil tú ag maoimh gur thosaigh ár dteanga 'de novo' an uair sin! Éóg1916 14:46, 1 Mí na Nollag 2009 (UTC)
It is in fact very relevant. You quoted O'Rahilly as saying that "if Manx...had had the good fortune to preserve...[a] Gaelic orthography...". As I stated, the first attested writings in a Gaelic language on the Isle of Man was in the 16th century, using a system of orthography very similar to the system currently employed. Manx never had a Gaelic orthography to preserve. It is impossible to preserve that which did not exist previously. I'm not sure why you repeated the statement seeing as how I already answered it.
Secondly, a Gaelic orthography would not accurately represent the Manx language. E.g. let's take the word boodeeys /buːdɪːəs/ meaning community: if this was written in a Gaelic alphabet it would be rendered as búdaíos or perhaps búdaidheas. A problem arises, however, when we look at the plural of the word which is boodeeyssyn /buːdɪːəzən/ with a /z/ sound in place of the original terminal /s/. How should this be represented in a Gaelic orthography? Surely not búdaíozan or búdaidheazan? And it's not just a problem with word endings in the plural. The /z/ sound is very prominent in the language to be found in words such as cassey, cassag, rassan, bassoon, cressad etc. There is also the problem of the double consonant in the middle of a bi-sylabic word such as saggyrt ("sagart" i nGaeilge). This word is pronounced as /sɑːɣərt/ with a very soft g in the middle. To use a Gaelic system of orthography, the word would have to be spelled as sághdhart or something like that. Ságart would ignore the soft g in the middle, while sághart would yield a resulting /saːɪərt/ pronounciation. Again, not hitting the mark. So basically we would have to come up with a brand new system of Gaelic orthography for Manx - simply to satisfy the wishes of a few people in Ireland and Scotland who are not happy with knowing how to read Manx, while at the same time removing a well established orthography which enjoys widespread support amongst speakers of the language on the island.
Ta mee creaghnit lesh yn arganeys shen nish. T'eh baghtal nagh vel ayn 'sy resoonaght shoh nish agh resoonaght pholitickagh, gyn oayllys ny fyssyree hengoaylleeagh ny henndeeagh. --MacTire02 15:44, 1 Mí na Nollag 2009 (UTC)

I just find it faintly absurd that Gaelic speakers of different dialects need to resort to using English in order to talk to one another. Why not agree to use just one dialect to conduct all discussions in? Isn't language essentially about communication? The reason that I refer to them as dialects is because the difference between Gaeilge, Gàidhlig and Gaelg is significantly less than the differences in dialects in other languages such as German. Until the 1950s it was possible to see the dialect continuum between Gaeilge and Gàidhlig, until the language died out in the Glens of Antrim. I think it would be a nice gesture if the above response in Manx was rewritten in the Gaelic orthography. That way other Gaelic speakers could have a better chance of understanding it. I wouldn't worry about Gaelic not having a grapheme to represent 'z' sounds, English confuses 's' and 'z' all the time without ever feeling the need to meticulously represent it in writing.Úsáideoir:Chaco 2 Mí na Nollag 2009

It's not that absurd. My level of Manx verges on fluent. My level of Irish (shamefully) is not as good. I can only understand Scots Gaelic with a lot of concentration and a dictionary. If I were to communicate in Irish or Scots Gaelic my points would not come across. If I use Manx no-one here would understand (I'm open to be corrected on that). You mention about the differences between Gaeilge, Gaelg and Gaidhlig as being less than the differences in German. However, the differences are greater than between Norwegian and Danish, yet they are regarded as separate languages. Now, I'm not trying to diminish the relationship between the Gaelic languages. Indeed they are very close. But I think the question is one of linguistic definition - i.e. defining the difference between dialect and language. As regards rewriting the above piece in Manx - I would gladly do it. Only one problem though - as there is no gaelic orthography used for Manx it becomes necessary to use a gaelic orthography already in existence (I'm not going to create or adapt one as that is not my place). So the question is which orthography? Modern Irish, pre-1948 Irish, Scottish, classical Irish? If you can give me a suggestion I will gladly rewrite the above piece. Gura mie ayd. --MacTire02 19:58, 2 Mí na Nollag 2009 (UTC)

Could you write it in Modern Irish? I'm quite curious now as to what it will look like :) Thanks.Úsáideoir:Chaco 6 Mí na Nollag 2009

Cré’n fáth do bheil sibh ‘g ré nach bheil ans na teangachan Gaelgach ach teanga shingil? Tá mí fhéin creideal nach bheil ceart ann é sen a’ gré gan fíonais teangeolaíoch no gan iomréachan no fairéanan-fios. Tá céir-scríobh a’ Ghaelg fíor anchasladh ris céir-scríobh a’ Ghaelg Albanach, no a’ Iéirneais. Ma bheil sinn ‘g ré do bíodh é nos fhéarr nach bheil ann ach aon teanga Ghaelgach leis ram ábhartan, cré’n céir-scríobh tá nos fhéarr dúinn. Tá na Manannaigh dineamh iomad den céir-scríobh Manannach ar fé ceithir cíadan de bhliantan. As tá sinn fíor moirneach leis. T’é suidheachadh de focladh mach a’ Ghaelg nos fhéarr dúinn na céir-scríobh Gaelgagh a’ Iéirneais. Mar saimpléar, tá’n síon /z/ aghainn, síon nach bheil ann sa Iéirneais no sa Ghaelg Albanach, as síon tá scríobht síos mar <ss>. Tá struchtúr gramadach anchasladh ans nan dteanga ac, struchtúr nach bheil ri fhéagann ans na teangachan Gaelgach eile. Cha neil céas fíor-ghineadach aghainn – t’é sen, cha neil dúine deargal díochann ar focal sa chéas ghineadach as, éist, cur tuigealas ann do bheil a’ focal sen ‘na focal boireannach no ‘na focal fireanach. Tá sinn ‘g ré an y fireanach ans ionad do bheil na teangachan Gaelgach eile cur na boireannach san ionad chéadan. Tá struchtúr aireamhach anchasladh aghainn mar gcéadan. Sa Iéirneais tá sinn dineamh iomad de aireamhan pearsúnach. Sa Ghaelg cha neil ach trí aireamhan pearsúnach ann – dúine, dís (dhúine), triúr. Déidh sen tá sinn lobhairt ceithir daoine, cúig daoine a.r.e. Maraon leis sen, tá struchtúr gramadach na haireamhan fíor anchasladh ris a’ Iéirneais – sa Iéirneais tá sinn dineamh iomad de bogachas mairis a’ leagan aonadach bhé na haireamhan dá dos sé, as de strónachadh bhé seacht dos naoi. Sa Ghaelg tá sinn dineamh iomad de bogachas mairis a’ leagan aonadach do naon as dá. Do na haireamhan eile cha neil sinn dineamh iomad ach den leagan iolra – gan strónachadh, gan bogachas. Ans Gaelg Albanach as Iéirneais, ta bogachas no strónachas ri chlaistean trá tá sinn ‘g iomadadh roimh-fhoclan. Cha neil é sen ri chlaistean sa Ghaelg ach aon trá – nar tá alt díreach ann (t’é. s.) er boayrd, ach er y voayrd). Tá réad eile ri fhéagann ans Gaelg nach bheil ann ans na teangachan Gaelgach eile – tá na teangachan Gaelgach eile dineamh iomad de fear-ainmean seilbheach don chíad, don nath as don tríú phearsún san iolra – t’é.s. ár, bhur, a sa Iéirneais. Cha neil a’ read chéadan ann sa Ghaelg. Tá sinn dineamh iomad de nyn ar na lomarcan don chíad, don nath, as don tríú phearsún, as dos anchaslachadh a’ dhineamh eadar ciallan, a’ roimh-fhocal ec ‘na dhéidh. M.s. ár dteanga sa Iéirneais, nyn jengey ain (nan dteanga aghainn) sa Ghaelg, bhur dteanga sa Iéirneais, nyn jengey eu (nan dteanga aghaibh) sa Ghaelg a.r.e. Maraon leis na hanchaslasan gramadach t’ann, tá anchaslasan briatharach ann chomh math. Ans Iéirneais tá na heimsearan seo ri ghéadan: eimsear éarach, eimsear chaith, eimsear ri thít, eimsear cheanglach, eimsear earache chleachtach, an eimsear chaith chleachtach, an eimsear fondach. Sa Ghaelg, cha neil ach an eimsear earache, an eimsear chaith, an eimsear ri thít as an eimsear cheanglach. Ach, ains ar bith, cha neil na heimsearan caith as ri thít ‘na fíor-eimsearan ar a’ fáth do bheil ad déant suas son a’ chuid ‘s mó den leagan caith den bhriathar jean (dín). T’é sen, son do chrú an ábhart ta mí dráphal a’ bileadh (ta mee drappal y billey) san eimsear chaith, seigean dúinn é sen a gré mar renn mí dráphal a’ bileadh (ren mee drappal y billey) as san eimsear ri thít - ním dráphal a’ bileadh (nee’m drappal y billey). Maraon leis sen, tá foclan ar Leith aghainn nach bheil ann ans na teangachan Gaelgach eile – leithéad (l’théad?) as búdaidheas (boodeeys), vondéis (vondeish), vál (vaal), caodhal (quaiyl), bhued? (wed), thuéig? (whaig) a.r.e. foclan cuéadhach t’iondaibh as ad tít mach as a’ Lochlannais, a’ Fhrangais, as a’ Bhéarla sheandaíoch. Tá sibh ‘g ré do bheil na Iéirnigh, na hAlbanaigh as na Manannaigh cur Gaelg no focal céadan ar a’ teanga, as nach bheil ann ach aon teanga as í bunnait ar a’ focal sen as na cosúlachtan eadar ac. Ach, díach ar na teangachan Slavach Slóivínis, Slóvaicis as Slavóinis Eaglaiseach – t’ad cur slovenščina, slovenčina, as Словѣ́ньскъ (slovjensk) ar nan dteangachan ac, as na foclan sen dineamh cur síos ar aon focal – Slaivis, no Slavóinis. Tá ram cosúlachtan as foclan eadar ac. Bheil sibh ‘g ré nach bheil ans na trí teangachan sen ach aon teanga? Cré mocheann Norlannais, Súlannais as a Danmhairgis? Do dearbh, bheil Gaelg aghaibh dos cosúlachadh do dhineamh? Bheil Gael gag Ó Duibhín? Ar liom do bheil sibh do léireach dineamh airgéanasan gan fíonaisean. Cha neil ann ach tuairimean aghaibh, as leis sen cha neil cied aghaibh duilleagan do ath-ainmeasadh gan cúis, cha neil cied aghaibh gré nach bheil sa Ghaelg ach ábhart den Ghaedhilg mar dúirt Ó Duibhín gan fíonais féagal mach ainm a’ teanga.

Ar ghiarad, tá céir-scríobh anchasladh aghainn, focladh mach anchasladh aghainn, síonchórasachtas anchasladh aghainn, gramadas anchasladh aghainn, struchtúr briatharach anchasladh aghainn, seannachas ar Leith aghainn, cultúr ar Leith aghainn, a.r.e. T’án Ghaelg nos fhaide bhé na teangachan Gaelgach eile na tá’n Norlannais bhén Danmhairgis – no ans mo thuairim fhéin, teanga ar Leith t’ans a’ Ghaelg, anchasladh ris a’ Iéirneais as a ‘ Ghaelg Albanach. Tá mí cur féailt ris airgéanas in aghaidh’n éidh sen, ma bheil fios, fairéanan-fios, no iomréachan teangeolaíoch aghaibh, ionracan.

Please bear in mind that the above transliteration is only my attempt at providing a Gaelic orthography for Manx. When doing this I came across a large problem - The Gaelic orthography is designed in such a way as to represent pronounciation while at the same time representing the origins of a word. In the above transliterations I came across words where, in order to provide a gaelic orthography for them, I had to create a word where the pronounciation was lost and the root maintained (aghaibh - Manx, eu, and cognate with Irish agaibh but pronounced /ɛːʊː/), and where the pronounciation was maintained but the root was lost (iondaibh - Manx, ayndaue, and cognate with Irish ionaibh but pronounced /ˌɘndɘʊ/ (roughly)). The system does not accurately allow the correct pronounciation of Manx vowels, nor of certain consonantal pronounciations such as /z/, /ɣ/, /ʒ/, /ʍ/ etc. --MacTire02 21:23, 6 Mí na Nollag 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I think the text dramatically highlights the close relationship between the different ‘Gaelics’. I agree that there are significant grammatical differences, especially with the tenses between Gaeilge and Gaelg, but I think the fact that most Gaeilge speakers would be more or less able to follow the text would suggest that Gaelg is a dialect. As you say, this is just an opinion and nobody is obliged to agree with it. However, I’m sure you will agree that the orthography that Manx is written in creates a barrier between it and the other Gaelics. Although the Gaelic orthography is an arbitrary representation of the language and by no means a perfect system for the representation of phonemes, it is one that is used by both Gaeilge and Gàidhlig speakers. As a result, the opportunity exists for a relationship of influence and negotiation to exist between the two Gaelics; there is no scope for Manx to enter into this relationship because of its orthography. Because of its history and its idiosyncratic interaction with Scandinavian, English and French languages, it has absorbed and developed lexis that describes experiences unique to Manx-Gaelic but sadly, because of the orthography, the chance to enrich the other Gaelics is lost. While I can fully understand the affection that many Manx speakers have for their orthography and its long history, it isolates Manx and denies it from developing a natural relationship with other Gaelics. I think you effectively highlighted this with your discussion of your problem with Gaelg ‘aghaibh’. While the pronunciation is not properly reflected, the relationship with the Gaeilge cognate ‘agaibh’ is. You underline the problematic relationship between spoken and written language, which stresses just how integral Gaelg is to ‘Gaelic’. This problem shared by English, for example the ‘w’ in ‘two’ is not dropped in order to emphasise its relationship with its cognates ‘twice’, ‘twins’ etc. It is a shame that Manx could not employ an orthography as effective as the one used in the text that you created above and I believe because of this a real opportunity is being missed. Úsáideoir:Chaco 7 Mí na Nollag 2009